Chapter VIII

Ngaoho are the people who formerly resided in and around this district of Tamaki, the people that Hua belongs to, that was before Wai-ohua. Nga-iwi was the name of all the tribes who resided in this district - Ngaoho was the general name for the people. Ngaiwi was not the name of a tribe but the general name for the tribes. The headquarters of Ngaho were at Maungakiekie (One Tree Hill) and all the Pa's in this district, I never heard that Maungawhau (Mount Eden) was occupied.

Not anyone has as good a claim to Orakei as myself, putting the question of occupation on one side.

Why have they not? They can't show a good claim.

Do you mean that they have not so much Tao blood in them?

Because I claim it from two ancestors in this district and by conquest.

These two ancestors are Huatau and Tukararai.

Other ancestor nearer than these are through Tua-hawaiki and Moko-rua.

The children of Te Huatau have a claim to this land. They had a right to the land but in side (one parent) only.

On what side? The side of Huatau.

Do you know where Nga-ti-whatua came from the North.

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Te Tao were called Nga-ririki before they came from the north. And Te Tao-u the same.

Not anyone has as good a title to this land through descent as me - because they are only descended on one side - because in some instances the father is the rightful owner of the land and the mother belonged to distant places. If Tuahawaiki was not of this district I should have only been interested in this land on one side.

I claim through Mokorua on one side and on the other side through Tua-hawaiki.

I claim land through the other side. Te Houta and Rangi-rua.

Which is the best claim the father's or the mother's? The male ancestor.

The best claim is through the male ancestor.

Te Tao or Nga-ti-whatua had not been here in the Tamaki district before they landed at Kohi-marama.

Why had not been here?

Because they had not up to that time destroyed the people of this country.

Who do you call the people?

The Ngaoho and Wai-o-hua.

Nga-ti-whatua destroyed them with the help of Te-tao-u.

Did any other people assist them? I heard only of conquest by Te Tao.

Did you hear of conquest by other people? Never heard of it till the present investigation.

Did you never hear of the Waikato's coming down and destroying the people of page (102)this place? I never heard.

I did hear of Wai-kato coming down here to take back Tapauwe bones but that war party went to Raglan.

Did you not hear that they came here? I never heard. Whey did that war party go to Raglan Houta? They went there to fight.

That war party went to Raglan to fight.

Do you say that N'Whatua was the only people who destroyed the people of this place? I never heard of any other.

Did N'Whatua stay here then?

Tuperiri and Te Tao remained constantly in occupation of the Tamaki district.

How long did they continue in occupation?

They remained in this district till Apihai Te Kawau had grown up when they returned to Kai-para. They left Apihai Te Kawau, Tua-hawaiki and others here.

Where were N'Whatua Taou when Kopiro came? I don't know.

The conquerors of the original people were Te Tao and Nga-ti-whatua.

Te Taou went to Ongarehu when Hongi came.

Where were Te Taou went when Pomare came?

When the Ngapuhi invasions took place I was not born.

Has everything you have told us taken place since you were born? The other things I heard of.

Do you mean you never heard before this where Te Tao were when Kopiro came? I have heard.

When Kopiro came Te-tao-u were at One-hunga

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Where were they when Kopiro came? One-hunga.

And when Hongi came they were at Ongaruhu and Nga-oho and Uringutu were living here in the Tamaki district where Auckland now is.

Where were Te Tao and N'Whatua in the time of Pomare?

Some of Te Tao-u and Nga-ti-whatua met Pomare at Te-toro in Manukau.

Nga-oho and Uringutu remained here during the invasion in Kopiro's time and when Mauinaina was taken they went away to Wai-kato and Te-whanga-nui-a-tara (Wellington).

Where were Ngaoho and Uringutu in the time of Pomare? I heard that they met Pomare at Manukau. Te Tao and Ngaoho were returning from Waikato when they met him.

The Nga-oho and Uri-ngutu in the time of Pomare met him in Manukau at the time they were coming back from Waikato and met him and his war party going up to Wai-kato.

Where were Te Tao when Kopiro came?

Te Tao-u, Nga-oho and Uri-ngutu are all one people and at that time one hapu of Te Taou was at Ongaruhu and part of them were here in Tamaki. Te Tao-u conquered the people of this part.

Te Taou at the time of Kopiro were at Onehunga.

In Hongi's time all the people who were living at Mangere and Onehunga fled away to Manukau heads when Hongi invaded Mauinaina. The men of Te Taou went south and the women and children only were living at Mangere and Onehunga.

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Te Tao-u were in the Wai-takere ranges when Hongi came the second time. They were at Wai-kato when Po-mare came with his war party.

How long after Pomare came was it that you came to live in this district? I don't know.

When Wai-kato brought you back, Pomare met us, when we were returning after having fled from Ika-ranga-nui. A portion of us under Tinana returned with Po-mare and the remainder came to Mahurangi. The returning into this district with Po-tatau was after we came from Wai-kato with Pomare. We had come to these waters of Wai-te-mata and Manukau and returned to Te-horo before we came down with Po-tatau - we remained at Te-horo a year before we came down with Po-tatau.

When we came with Po-tatau we come to Wai-kato Heads.

What part of Tamaki did you come to before Potatau's time?

Before we came with Potatau we came to Manukau and also into Wai-te-mata to fish for sharks. We also went to Mahurangi.

Te Tao came with Nga-ti-tama-oho, Nga-ti-te-ata and others.

Had you many cultivations in this part then? No. How did you get your food when you were fishing? Fern root.

We lived on fern root.

We did not make any clearing. We returned to Te-horo. When we came down in a body with Po-tatau, Nga-ti-te-ata, Nga-ti-mahuta and others came down with us. We came first page (105)to Waikato Heads. When the crops were beginning to grow we came to Manu-kau. Te-tao-u came to Karanga-hape, the others went to Awhitu, Pehiakura, Tipitai and other places.

Did any of the people come on to this place?

Potatau came to Awhitu and stopped at various places. During the first we remained at Karanga-hape the people had put in their crops at Mangere and Ihu-matao and had returned.

Do you remember the peace at Otahuhu? Yes.

I do not remember the peacemaking at Tamaki Heads but I do that at O-tahuhu - I have heard of the peace between Kahu-koti and Po-tatau. Te Taou were then living at Mangere, Nga-ti-te-ata and Nga-ti-tama-oho at Mangere. Potatau was living at Awhitu.

I do not know what that peace was for - I did not know whether it had anything to do with occupation of these lands.

We were all at Otahuhu besides Potatau and Kaihau. It was a pakeha (European) peacemaking it was an assemblage of schools a missionary meeting. I was not baptized then - I was in the reading classes. All I know is that Kahu-koti came with Mr Fairburn and our ministers were there - they were having an examination of schools. Te-tao-u, Nga-ti-tama-oho, Nga-ti-te-ata and Nga-ti-mahuta were there. The peacemaking was not in reference to these lands. Mr Fairburn bought some lands from Kahu-koti the purchase page (106)had taken place at Marae-tai, the land was at O-tahuhu. I was reading and did not pay much attention to what was going on.

Mr Fairburn purchased the land in order to prevent a disturbance.

Who got the pounds?

Kahu-koti's people one part of the payment and we the remainder.

Who gave you the payment?

We asked Mr Fairburn for the payment.

Who asked Mr Fairburn?

Te-Taou asked for it. We received our part after Kahu-koti had been paid, Kahu-koti sold only his own portion.

Did a new sale take place by you to Mr Fairburn? It was not different.

The payment we received was for a portion of the same lands. We were paid some time afterwards.

After peace was made Potatau went to Onehunga. After peace was made Te Taou to Onehunga and Mangere, Te-ata to Awhitu, Nga-ti-tama-oho to Tipi-tai, Nga-ti-paoa to Wai-heke and Maraitai.

Who committed the Whakatiwai murders? N'Mahu and N'Mahuta.

The Whakatiwai murders were Nga-ti-tama-oho and Nga-ti-mahuta.

Where did N'Mahuta live? Te Horo.

Nga-ti-mahuta lived at Te-horo. Nga-ti-te-ata at Maunga-pouri.

How soon was it after the peacemaking that Te Tao came to live here?

Te Tao-u had cultivated here a considerable time at Horo-tiu and Rangi-toto before the peacemaking.

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You have spoken of coming to fish in Potatau's time. Why did you say you have no cultivations? How long after you came down with Potatau was it before the peacemaking occurred? I do not know how many years - it was a long time. The church had been built at Whakaringa, was getting out of repair.

We had been here many years after coming down with Potatau before the peace was made.

We had cultivations at Mangere, Onehunga, Horo-tiu (Queen Street, Auckland) and Rangi-toto. When we were cultivating here we merely put in the crops and returned to Mangere.

We worked at Horo-tiu two years.

Can you not say how long it was after you came with Potatau that the peace was made? I cannot say.

Had you been here one year after coming down with Potatau, before the peace was made?

We had not any cultivations in Wai-te-mata before we came down with Potatau.

Why did all the tribes come with Potatau?

Apihai-Te-Kawau asked Po-tatau to come with all the tribes.

Why?

Because Apihai had been living with Po-tatau at Wai-kato - another reason was there was a deal of land which had been given to Po-tatau by Awarua and we were afraid to come without Po-tatau on account Nga-ti-paoa and Nga-puhi as page (108)peace had not been made. We were afraid at the peacemaking at Otahuhu and up till the time of the peace with Para-whau.

I went to Whanga-rei to make peace with Para-whau: peace had been made before that at O-tahuhu at the missionary meeting - you call it a peace I call it a meeting of schools.

Where did the peacemaking take place that was made with N'Paoa? I did not go to Whangarei till after the peace with H Tipa at Okahu.

Why did you say peace was made with N'Paoa at the missionary meeting? Because other people call it a peacemaking - peace with N'Paoa was made there.

At this assemblage of schools were the N'Paoa there? There were not many of them. They talked friendly. We and N'Paoa were altogether in the reading class - peace was made with N'Paoa by the elders there. After the peace with Parawhau fear was removed.

Court adjourned for half an hour.

Ex Witness Cont: The first place we came to when Po-tatau came with us was Karanga-hape. I do not know how long we were there. We cultivated there for a considerable time, we cultivated for more than one two or three seasons and we did not come to Mangere until that Pa was out of repair - I think we were at Karanga-hape six years. We went from thence page (109)to Mangere. We lived permanently at Mangere. I do not know exactly how long we were there it was the principal place of residence we went from thence to O-kahu. When we left Karanga-hape we left it for good - we left Mangere also.

How long had you been residing at O-kahu before the Governor came? Four years.

How many seasons had you cultivated? We had cultivated four seasons - the fourth year when the pakeha's came the crops were ripe.

We resided at O-kahu four years and had cultivated for four seasons.

At the time of the peace of Otahuhu we were living at Mangere but had previously cultivated lands at Horo-tiu and Rangi-toto.

Was the peacemaking at the beginning or end of your residence at Mangere?

We had been at Mangere a long time. Po-tatau had left his place at Awhitu. It was more than six years from the time Po-tatau brought us down that the peacemaking occurred. During the six years we were living at Karangahape. We had cultivated at Karanga-hape and Ihu-matao. During the whole of this time we were in fear of Nga-puhi and Nga-ti-paoa. During that time we cultivated at Horo-tiu we also came to Wai-te-mata to fish for sharks.

The remnants of the people of this place Tamaki who met at Mangere to assist Tupe-riri to avenge the death of his sister were the Wai-o-hua and Nga-oho.

Where was Ngaoho staying when you page (110)saw White at Karangahape? Awhitu.

Were N'Teata there? Yes, they came there after N'Maho.

Nga-ti-tama-oho and Nga-ti-te-ata did not come with us to fish for sharks in Wai-te-mata. They did not come - at the time we were living at Mangere. Nga-ti-te-ata had come some time before. Nga-ti-whatua and Nga-ti-tama-oho came. We had cultivations here at that time. We came in large bodies Nga-ti-paoa were at Tamaki; we merely cultivated and went back to Mangere. We were afraid to come here to reside permanently but not afraid to cultivate. We did not all come - we came in parties of about ten.

Had you cultivations here when Captain Symonds came? We had given up our cultivations at Horotiu when Capt Symonds came - we had been cultivating there three years. I saw Capt Symonds and went with him to Kaipara. I first saw him at Mangere - I saw White before I saw Symonds. Capt Syumonds and Heale came from Kaipara in Captain Heale's vessel. Te Tirarau was with them. The Governor came one year after Capt Symonds. We were cultivating at Mangere, Rangitoto and Horotiu. The man of war came the same year Capt Symonds came - we had given up working at Horotiu and had commenced a clearing at Waiariki. It was during that year we first commenced residing at Okahu - it was then we commenced page (111)The tribes who came here with Po-tatau came to take up the land they inherited through Te-ata-i-rehia and came to Awhitu. N'Maho came to Pehiakura and we came to our portions in Wai-te-mata because they were the portions that belonged to them before they were driven away. The people who were near to us were Te Aki-tai.

These tribes took up their lands under their common ancestor because the descendants owned land on the south side of Manukau and we had land on the north side.

We claim land at Orakei on this side the bridge through the same ancestor as on the other. The same ancestors Huatau and Tukararai.

Do you know Tobey Bunting? He belonged to Maungangu to N'Maho - he was uncle of Wetere.

Do you know of his selling any land in the neighbourhood of Remuera? He this father sold it - the land that Apihai had given them. I do not know whether he sold land at Kohi-marama to Mr Dalziel - he did not sell that land I do not know that he sold land in that locality to Mr Dalziel.

Do you know whether Te Hira signed the deed of purchase of Waiuku? I do not know he received some of the money - I do not know the amount. Te Hira is of Te Tao. He is Api-hai's son.

By Mr Mackay: My claim at Okahu or Orakei is similar to that of Apihai Te Kawau. If he died my claim page (112)would be good but now he is alive he is the principal.

I claim on the same grounds as he.

Have all these tribes, Ngaoho, Tao and Urungutu equal claims?

Te Tao claim from their ancestors on one side only. Tokararai, but claim of Ngaoho and Urungutu are equal in right to this land at Orakei. The original name of the tribe owning Okahu was Nga-oho. Nga-oho was the old name of Wai-o-hua.

Did you never hear Ngaoho came from Kaipara? No.

Where did Urungutu come from?

Uru-ngutu are Nga-oho - it is a new name.

What canoe did these people come in? I don't know. Have you never heard of tribes in speaking of relationship say they came in a certain canoe? Yes.

Nga-oho, Te-tao-u and Urungutu all hapu's of Nga-ti-whatua. Nga-oho comes from Huatau and Tukararai - they are now called hapu's of Nga-ti-whatua.

Have you heard of Ngaiwi? Yes. If Ngaoho is the original name of the original people how is it we also hear of that they were Ngaiwi?

Ngaoho is the name of the original people - they were Ngaiwi. The reason is there were tribes in all directions and therefore we say "Ngaiwi" (the tribes).

I never hear that in former times Ngaiwi and Waiohua had separate possessions.

Then if some tribes say that the lands on this side of the watershed were belonging to Wai-o-hine

The lands on this side of the watershed were belonging to Wai-o-hine page (113)and on the other Ngaiwi they speak falsely? Yes because all the lands were joined together.

Ngaiwi because all the lands were joined together.

How you prove that to be false?

Because the land belonged to Hua and other ancestors.

Hua belonged to Wai-o-hua and Nga-oho.

Urungutu were living at the time of Tupe-riri's attack at Mangere. The ancestor of Paerimu was killed at Mangere.

Urungutu owned lands in vicinity of Poke no. All these lands down to where Auckland now stands belonged to Waiohua.

Were the tribes always living together or had Urungutu separate lands from Te Tao Ngaoho?

Ngaoho Te Tao-u had separate land before Mangere was taken, but Ngaoho were Uringutu - Nga-oho is a new name.

Does not that equally apply to Te Tao? No.

Although Nga-oho was the original great name Taou are only half Nga-oho.

Have you heard of Te Hehewa and Rangikaketu? Yes. Were they Wai-o-hua? I never heard that they were.

If Hetaraka say they were is it true or untrue? It is false. Where did Te Hehewa live?

Te Hehewa lived on the lands at Takapuna extending northwards and at the Thames.

Did you ever hear that Hehewa was of Ngaiwi? Yes.

Hehewa was of Ngaiwi.

Where did Te Hehewa die?

Did you ever hear that he died at page (114)Manga-whau? He did not die there.

Do you know where Te Hehewa was living when Wahaakiaki came? No.

Did the conversation you have related between Wahaakiaki take place before or after (Mimihanui) the murders? After.

The conversation between Waha-akiaki took place after the Mimiha-nui murders.

How do you account for this discussion as they were on unfriendly terms?